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Author Topic: *newbi* rant n rave need tech assistance *updated*  (Read 13445 times)
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1fastws6
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« on: May 06, 2011, 07:44:49 pm »

Dear Gentlemen,
       Please allow me to introduce myself and situation: I am a retired auto tech of 23 yrs in the auto repair industry and have experiance with Infiniti,BMW,Porsche,Lamborghini,Land Rover,GM, & Dodge products, dealership for 18 years and performance for 5yrs...I say this not to pat myself on the shoulder BUT to illustrate to you folks that I KNOW what senser data is available from the manufacture and what the specs should be. What I'm NOT is a computer engineer, script writer,code writer,software engineer,or a mental telepathist. What I'm trying to say here is some BASIC instructions on how to operate your software efficiantly would be NICE!!! I no longer work on vehicles for a living due to a motorcycle accident and after some research for cable and software to read codes and data, found your software to be at the frontline of whats available to the average user.(especially for the price) The reason I purchased your software was to try and correct a reoccuriing ck engine light that my mom has been dealing with for the last 2 years and having repaired at a local repair facililty without success, since retirement i have gotten rid of my scantool that I purchased from Matco Tools 10+ years ago ($2200.00) (with OBD II support) thus making the need for something like what you offer viable.However I feel I should have taken heed when no phone # is available!!!

RAVES:  Your product seems to have a huge marage of capabilities and settings(far greater than any scan tool I've preveiously used)It also has functions NOT available on any other scanner used..ie:dyno,dragstrip....For all the capablities and functions..I say KUDOS and GREAT JOB!!! However I feel the average user will NEVER see the full potential, unless they happen to be a software engineer/code writer

RANTS:  NO INSTRUCTION MANUAL!!!! NO TECHNICAL SUPPORT PHONE #!!!,NO TRAINING VIDEOS!!!  LIMITED CUSTOMER SERVICE!!! (except thought forum,when asked, refer to forum for answers...REEAALLLY? after 6-7 hrs of searching,then viewing EACH AND EVERY THREAD in the forum I still don't find the answers that I seek. Many of which could be answered IF I ONLY HAD SOME BASIC INSTRUCTIONS!!! One reoccuring sentament all over this forum has been the pleading for a instruction manual. (as far back as 08...thats 3 YEARS!! come on guys!!! What will it take to get some instructions, class action law suit?) I realize that it make take a great deal of time to construct a instructional manual to cover all the parameters that this software covers, but in this day and age of technology why cant you post a video to you tube explaining how to get software up and running,how to connect to a vehicle,how to load ALL the data that is available from ECM/PCM (I've since learned how to do this,although I spent 3 hrs fumbling though threads doing so),covering some basics as to what a PID is and how it relates in data view,what a script is and how it relates to funtion of dashboard gauges. (for my computer illiturate brain cell and any others out there like me..I suspect there are a few...We'd appreciate it)  




FOR THE NEWBIES (THIS IS WHAT I LEARNED)*PLEASE CORRECT IF WRONG*
    Presuming you have the software (w/license) installed with all drivers:
          1)Plug in data cable to laptop and vehicle,startup scan software (run as admin)
          2)Enter vehicle manager and enter vehicle and owner info (may prompt to connect) y
          3)Connect to vehicle (green circle w/connected image) (status bar)
          4)Under SETTINGS tab, click on PID(Paramiter IDs)*in other words factory sensor data* config tab,under manufacture:highlight SAE
             (this will(should)retrieve factory sensor data)*however in my opinion not all that is available is displayed*
          5)Click on Validate PIDs tab (if you know something should be available,select all and revalidate.)
          6)*my understanding*If you wish to use (CALC.) PIDs (which are mathamatical equations *ie:scripts*? based on factory data input) and used mainly for gauges/dyno/dragstrip.
click on these to make a particular dashboard gauge to function.
          7)At this point you may read/record/monitor sensor data,clear trouble codes,read freeze frame data (actually this could have been done after connection but not the point)
and should function as a "normal" scan tool



Now for my questions:
   1) How do I get TPS sensor VOLTAGE readings?(cant find PID) I see throttle angle and absolute TPS angle but none produce a voltage reading only a %
            A)In dasboard, DashXL (1st tab for gauges) throttle angle shows 16%.....at IDLE...which could lead someone to believe TPS sensor voltage is out of spec for some reason..(however my understanding is that this is based on some "mathamatical equation" based on some referance (TPS voltage should be the referance) Why can't I read it?
            B)Also in Gauges tab throttle angle will not show greater than 70% @WOT also leading to believe fault with TPS,again TPS VOLTAGE would be of great use

     2) How do I change mass air flow to read in g/s while all other gauges/readings are in US std?

    3)How do I get IAC position or cycle counts? (cant find in PID)

    4)How do I get O2 sensor VOLTAGES for ALL installed O2 sensors? IE: B1S1 B1S2 B2S1 B2S2 (can't find PID)
       This item has been resolved:under PID config tab, {find parameter}enter search text {if you know} or enter first 3 letters and scroll through

    5)Is there a way to adjust DATA info in DATA VIEW up/dwn according to your preferances? IE: Id like SAE RPM in top line, TPS Volts 2nd line, MASS AIR on 3rd line,etc....

    6)Is there a way to intigrate software to support preOBDII vehicles?What if I have software that currently reads preOBDII (with nec cable)Any way to intigrate with dashboard functinality,data view?

    7) I have many other questions pertaining to developing/modifying existing dashboards (however I NEED to obtain the accurate date before wasting time buidling/modifying dash

    8)How do I verify the accuracy of gauge clusters?(not sure how to expand on this,ref.TPS angle above)

        I hope this message gets to the powers that be and ya'll ACTUALLY do something about this instruction manual(video), I'm SURE that if someone would get off their kieshter and do something about it , you guys would have more time to develop/refine software and ACTUALLY PRODUCE some thourough instructions,thereby saving you guys a great deal of time tending to this forum B.S.....How about a phone #?


                                                          Thanks for any assistance,
                                                           Fustrated & Pissed

                 P.S. upon retirement shop rate was $98.00/flt rt hr, I've spent 7 hrs on forums and an additional 3.5+composing this thread (neck/back pain prevents sitting for periods of time) WHO CAN I SEND MY BILL TO? :-)


Gigapapolooza and kaptincocoa2 I appreaciate the input...I too looked through HELP section and wasn't all that informative for me..but  do appreaciate the input..the more the merrier...

P.S. if your looking through this and agree please leave a post so that the powers that be will hear, they won't be able to drown out the voices of many!!!!      thanks again!!!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 07:23:54 pm by 1fastws6 » Logged
gigapalooza
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 11:41:29 pm »

I'm with ya man!  Tongue
I could not believe how much time and effort it took to get it to read data from my '03 Toyota Matrix.
Funny (tragic) thing is - the free ODBWiz software picked up on settings and displayed a lot of information that it took days to figure out how to match things up in ScanXL.

Two tips:
1) The help files build into the software helped a lot - but are hard to navigate, and many times out of date/confusing (different product names, etc.)
2) The vehicle settings are EVERYTHING.  To get calculated PIDs etc...one must populate those fields.  Some of the data is still eluding me.  Seems like a database by users would be nice.

Hang in there!
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kaptincocoa2
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2011, 01:54:19 pm »

Say, thanks for this post/thread. You have addressed much now if there are helpful respondses I'll be surprised, shocked, happy!

Feel I should say something positive while i'm here.
After having DC app (for 6months now) first on the IPod and now on my IPad I finally figured out most of THE GAUGEs and that's a relief.
However it may be me(galant 2002) but a whole session (from start to end) is never the same. Something won't load, all the way to just plain crash!
And I'm sure it is mentioned here somewhere , but why do I have to re-launch EVERYTHING every time???
What a hassle.
Anyway carry on this IS the only to find any info, YES we need some real documentation.
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1fastws6
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2011, 06:06:24 pm »

As of Monday 5/9/11 I have recieved NO RESPONSE from any one at tech dept; however have seen many others get answers to there questions!!!come on guys
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mcmarshon
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2011, 04:42:35 pm »

Can anyone help ?

Surely the cost for this software includes tech support help ?
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1fastws6
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2011, 04:53:06 pm »

Shall I say that this forum seems to be it
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Trevor@PPE
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2011, 05:07:35 pm »

Addressing concerns here we have a few things to say:
Starting off... An instruction manual is in the works. At this present time you can find support here at the forums or you can email us at support@palmerperformance.com
Now for the rest.
1: There is no standardized OBD-II PID for TPS voltage. our software without an enhanced add-on can only scan the standardized PID set. Not every PID will be supported on every vehicle, and manufacturer specific things won't be shown.

2: Right-click on SAE.MAF in the PID Config and select Metric

3: This is a manufacturer specific PID, and will not be able to be read over generic OBD-II.

4: You say this is resolved already, there is a search function in the PID Config.

5: There is not currently any way to change the order of the PID Config, but we will look into adding this feature.

6: ScanXL Pro (not ScanXL Std) supports external sensors, that can be installed on any vehicle, OBD-II or not. There are a couple of different onces from Zeitronix, PLX Devices, TechEdge, and others.

7: Our SkinXL Editor is available for free from the downloads page, and can be used to modify or create dashboard skin sets. You can also go to DashXL.net to ask questions about the dashboards, or download some created by other users.

8: These PIDs are read directly from the vehicle, it should be accurate unless there is a problem with that sensor on the vehicle.

You posted your first post on Friday after normal business hours. You can't expect a response over the weekend since we aren't here during that time. As for the rest of the week we are a busy company and we are working on a lot of projects. Thus we don't have a lot of time to spare when we're busy and can only answer a question here or there quickly. We don't ignore people, We just have a lot of people to work with.
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1fastws6
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2011, 06:05:02 pm »

Trevor,
     Thanks for the reply.....to address a couple things first...this is the 1st thread i've ever created on the net, I say that because when I 1st sent message on Fri local time was approx 4:00 pm(cntrl)..upon clicking "post" the 1st time i got a message stating that I had already posted the thread i waited approx 15 min and came back and refreshed to see if post was visable could not see it (at this time I didn't know if an admin was "screaning" post or not..it wasn't..apparantly I must have done something on this end to screw it up)...I had previously sent it to "support" in dropdown list of adresses (1st pg) without a response,by the time I figued out my problem it WAS late friday before it showed on net..I didnot expect to get a response until MON... I monitored all day yesterday without a response, even sending you direct email's requesting that you look at this thread....all that having been said, I have spent countless hours on this forum only to be running in circles it seems!!!  ON TO THE QUESTIONS:

1)I'm not sure that I understand,let me explain: I used to own a Matco enhanced OBD2 scanner, REGARDLESS of what manufacture of vehicle I connected to (pontiac t/a,dodge viper,gmc trucks,nissan maxima,dodge avenger(really a redress mitsubishi),bmw,etc,etc, didn't matter, I could always see certain parameters ie:rpm,o2's(all),tps,iac,speed,timing,a/c request,egr,emissions, etc....what I'm trying to say here is that if there is a sensor that supplies input data to a ecm then there will be some sort of referance voltage (0-5v) for that sensor,if I could read it with my Matco version then there should be some way to read it with your software... IS THERE SOMEKIND OF COMMAND THAT CAN BE SENT TO THE ECM TO GET THIS PID? IF SO HOW DO YOU DO THIS?

2)Don't have vehicle right now to test with, think I tried this but didn't seem to change date, will retry and have to get back with you.

3)ref. question 1 above

4)I tried that, while it did bring up some additional PID's,It did not bring up bank 1 o2 1,bank 2 o2 1,bank 1 o2 2... the way that I found them was to manually type each and every letter to get to pull up....IN OTHERWORDS if I did not KNOW what I was looking for and "experamenting" within the search field to find it...would not have been able to find in search or through thoro validate

5)any idea when?

6)not sure i understand,allow me to elaborate: If i am looking at data with another software (WINALDL) for pre obd II vehicles (85vette) iis there a way to integrate the two packages to be able to use functions like dragstrip and 1/4 mile and well as dashboard functions?

7)I've done this but am currently trying to get the correct pcm info before delving into this feature (if input isn't right output useless)

8)I used the dashboard on 3 seperate vehicles (2001 toyota sienna,2005 toyota tundra,2001 ford mustang) on the dashboard gauge for throttle angle, sienna shows 16%, tundra 18%, mustang shows 22% on all vehicles this was observed at IDLE....these would lead one to believe tps to be a problem....something is not right here!!!!! 
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Trevor@PPE
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 06:53:40 pm »

I'll get to addressing questions and concerns.

1. IAC, EGR, and other things will be manufacturer specific and require an enhanced add-on package. These unfortunately take a long time to create and require cooperation from the company that makes the vehicle type. (For example, the GM list has over 2000 extra PIDs that aren't available in the generic list)

2. You'll have to let us know how the testing goes.

5: We'll suggest it to our developers, but we don't have a firm timeline for new features. Check for it in the next release.

6: Unfortunately there isn't a way combine all of that together and make it work.

8: I think you might be confusing throttle angle with pedal position, they are NOT equivalent. I haven't seen any vehicle that reports a perfect 0%/100% for throttle angle, although the top end can drop down over time due to cable stretch.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 06:54:57 pm by Weston@PPE » Logged
1fastws6
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 11:05:57 am »

Trevor, thanks for the response

1) Don't know that I agree with you that parameters like TPS,IAC,KNOCK are vehicle specific, as I've ALWAYS been able to read with other scanners....but not hear to split hairs.....I looked into the GM enhanced add on, the sensor data that it appears that I'm looking for are listed, HOWEVER some of these were listed as sensor data that I WAS supposed to be able to read with the professional version upgrade,my concern is that I will again spend money with a company who's only means of tech support is this forum,and for some strange reason it not give the data I want,not to mention that its hard to justify spending another $100.00 for just 3 sensor data........  OK now some questions reguarding this:
                a)I've read that if you know the command that you are looking for there is a way to send a command for that data to the PCM...could you address how to do this (and any ramifications (if any) if done incorrectly) and also could you give an example of the "command" script and how to save for future use

2)Will update after vehicle returns

6)what about importing a saved data file (from WINALDL) and using for analasis purposes?

8)I'm NOT confusing throttle angle with pedal position (what you would be refering to is a fly by wire sys)what I am working on is a cable activated (pedal to throttle body with tps sensor ON throttle body) It is measured and displayed in  (%) and not angle
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Trevor@PPE
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 12:05:33 pm »

Alright then,

2. Let us know how it goes.

6. No, It can only load our proprietary .lgf log files.

1/8. I haven't seen any vehicle that shows a perfect 0% with  throttle position. If you think it's a problem with our software then to can try this free software from ScanTool.net to see if you get any more information:
http://www.scantool.net/scantool/downloads/83/scantool_net121win.exe

If you're looking into specific GM vehicles we can see what PIDs that vehicle supports before you buy the GM enhanced add-on.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:07:25 pm by Trevor@PPE » Logged
1fastws6
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 12:49:52 pm »

thanks again,however you did not cover subquestion to question 1 (1a)

1/8) wasn't neccessarily saying problem with sotware persay,...will agree that NO manufacture is going to read 0% at idle, however i'm getting readings above 15% witch I KNOW is not going to be correct as this would be the throttle angle on a slow speed cruise....something under 5% would be somewhat acceptable (and expected)....I see under data view that TP andle is same as it is on dashboard,but how does data view interperate info from PCM (ex: TP angle is normaly derived from TPS VOLTAGE when key is turned on and then based on "memory" of TPS voltage a % is derived and reported)

as far as the "free" software from scantool.net...I have that (that is where I purchased the cable and paid for the "PRO" version), it displays the same parameters as your software....could be interprited as a reskined version of what you offer (in my opinion)   
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Trevor@PPE
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 06:56:48 pm »

Your welcome. Let's talk about your questions.

1A: ScanXL Pro has the OBD-II Terminal under the Tools tab, which will allow you to directly send byte strings to the vehicle.

1/8: TPS voltage is not a part of the OBD-II Standardized PIDs, we are only able to retrive the value after it has been scaled into % already.

The Scantool.net software is free and open source, it is not developed, or in any way affiliated with us. Thus it is open-source
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1fastws6
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 07:09:48 pm »

Trevor, I have Scanxl Pro, i see the tab for which you describe,however...I know nothing about "byte strings" other than that they are "commands" for which 2 computers can communicate:

1a) any chance you could cover how to do this....or referance somewhere on the net that describes this?....any chance theres a list of the possable commands?

1/8) Presumably if I could get the nec info from the obd terminal tool I would be able to derive info that i seek (ref1a)

Upon sending byte string for a given pid, does that save in PID config or is this something that will have to be requested evertime I hook up to vehicle?
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Trevor@PPE
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2011, 07:23:17 pm »

It's good that you've seen the tab. Now we'll launch into the questions once more:

1a. We can cover how to do it but we legally can't just give you the commands to request PIDs. We had to pay GM for the information in the first place.

We will warn you up front. This is very technical and very difficult. Few people even know about this. Nonetheless here it is.

If you go to the OBD-II Terminal, and then go to the Custom Send tab, and check the Enable OBD-II Terminal checkbox. This checkbox is gray if you are not connected to the vehicle, or you are already data monitoring/recording.
Then you type your custom command, as a list of hex bytes, which will be sent directly to the vehicle when you press Send. Your sent communications are black, and received communications are blue.
We do not have a list of commands for the OBD-II Terminal, and can't legally give out the manufacturer specific information that we have on this. You'll have to find it on your own through Google or something, but getting a TPS voltage value should be possible through the OBD-II Terminal.

These are not saved in the PID Config as a PID, they are sent once and you have to interpret the vehicle response on your own each time.
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Shawnf350
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2011, 08:01:37 pm »

I understand these commands are property of the manufacturer. But if I want to buy these commands, how do I go about asking Ford or GM for them?  What are they actually called? I understand you have the commands and can not legally distribute them but what do I need to do to get the actual commands list or data to access any data I would need in opening/closing the EGR, etc.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 08:04:23 pm by Shawnf350 » Logged
1fastws6
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2011, 09:13:36 am »

Trevor, Hello its been awhile since Ive been back here,. tried to locate and find commands to no avail befor I got fustrated,I'm considering purchasing the enhanced add on for ScanXL Pro, My question is this before my purchase: does your software afford me the availability to "program/sync" keyless entry remotes to the vehicle? or will I still have to go to the dealer for programing?

Pregnancy symptoms:WTF!!!! dont you have something better to do than troll!!!yer answer is: insert a .45 round in yer favorite pistiola, hold firmly against head, and firmly pull trigger!!!!!!
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1fastws6
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2011, 09:15:14 am »

Trevor....when are you guys gonna do something about instruction manual/video covering all features of your software?
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1fastws6
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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 01:06:12 pm »

Would someone wilth Palmer Performance address my question please (last 2 posts) its been 2 weeks since I first posted the last post and NO-ONE with palmer has responded....GUYS NEED TO GET YA'LLS SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!
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Russ
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 06:49:29 pm »

Trevor, Hello its been awhile since Ive been back here,. tried to locate and find commands to no avail befor I got fustrated,I'm considering purchasing the enhanced add on for ScanXL Pro, My question is this before my purchase: does your software afford me the availability to "program/sync" keyless entry remotes to the vehicle? or will I still have to go to the dealer for programing?

This is not something our software can do. It depends on your car, but you may not need software to do this. I believe some cars will enter "programming mode" if you remove a specific fuse. Is this mentioned in your vehicle owner's manual?

Trevor....when are you guys gonna do something about instruction manual/video covering all features of your software?

FAQs and manuals are my top priority after handling orders and emails. I'm starting from scratch, but hopefully I will have a version available in the next few months.

Sorry for the delay, but we're a small company without a dedicated support staff. That said, if we're busy with orders, emails, and software development we may miss some of the posts on the forum. If you email tech-support you should get a response within 1-2 business days.
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In most cases we are going to want a tech log.
Don't forget to set debug to lv9 in the help menu, or turn on debugging in DashCommand *before* you try to connect. Duplicate the error, then send the log to support@palmerperformance. Give us 1-2 business days (weekdays) to review the files.
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